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View Full Version : [V8.2 Ground Combat] Hunter LOF/S Issue



NeutralGround
12-04-2011, 11:34
Again, my search was avid and i couldnt find anything on this.

It seems the Hunter has some kind of 'aura' around it that blocks the operatives L.O.S.

Look at this:

210

To look at it, it looks like a reasonably clear L.O.S. and now ill move the hunter to one side:

211

and the shot opens up, yet if i now move the target cursor to the square just adjacent and behind the alien:

212

the L.O.S. closes again - although by looking at the screen it looks like a reasonably clear shot.

This is easy to replicate.

Apologies if this has already come up.

Sathra
12-04-2011, 14:20
This hasn't come up before. Odd though, the first one it looks like the shot would be blocked by the front of the Hunter, but not for the third one...

Hard to tell though, but any direct-line shot path that crosses over the 'footprint' of the vehicle will be blocked.

NeutralGround
12-05-2011, 03:26
I actually seen this issue from loads of angles and some a even more severe than what can be seen in my third capture above.

This became obvious to me on a mission where there were 2 aliens just outside the rear doors of then Chinook. I moved Hunter just outside and dropped one alien, but missed the other, at which point the Hunter was out of AP. It was when i had to move my operatives out and around the hunter when I began to get confused as to why none them could get a shot on the alien, the next turn tried to move the Hunter out of the way, but it was shot down on the move. This left only 2 operatives with a shot on target, when by looking at the screen - at least 5 should have had a shot. I wish I had the screeenshots to show this. Sorry.

Chris
12-05-2011, 09:32
These screens kinda illustrates the problem with square vehicles. If you compare the area they fill to the diamond selection box (just mouseover them), when they're turned on any of the N,E,S,W facings instead of a diagonal one, they basically don't fill their box properly because of the shape of the unit. But they do fill it completely in game terms, so that's where the discrepancy arises.

But I can't really think of any way around this - unless we're actually going to make the vehicle smaller in game terms when it turns on the spot...any ideas?

Sathra
12-05-2011, 09:44
Not sure. Miss chances for certain sections of the unit? Having some kind of halo around any unit in the shot-path so you can tell why its blocked?

But having it actually become smaller (narrower?) when it turns would probably work, if possibly creating some strange bugs.

Chris
12-05-2011, 10:01
It'd cause issues because people would walk troops into those spaces and then turn it or something.

Perhaps the selection tile on the ground should light up if it's blocking LOS for a shot. That'd at least suggest what was going on.

radister
12-05-2011, 10:11
The game logic for the problem is sound, after all just rotating won't change the position of the unit even if it looks that way.
I can only see two ways around this.
1. like you said make the unit smaller, however this problem will be most apparent with anything 3 * X. at 2 * X the problem will be there but not so apparent.
2. Change the Unit Sprite to rotating turrets and not moving the whole unit. (at least on the diagonal line) which might look weird but would fix the problem

Chris
12-05-2011, 11:00
The turret idea would be awesome if the vehicles weren't also able to move in the offending directions, but sadly they can.

NeutralGround
12-05-2011, 11:48
While the LOS on this shot might be expected to be closed:

214

In this instance:

215

It could be said that the operative is merely using the edge of the Hunter as cover and 'in reality' should be able to keep clear LOS to the target despite it being beyond the front end of the Hunter. Also, once the Hunter dies it is then necessary to continue moving all soldiers out and around the Hunter in order to acquire a shot on the targets and thus exposing them to reaction fire.

I'm sure all of this is already realised and I don't mean to keep pointing out the obvious, but this will impact heavily on the gamers choice to continue using Hunters should the be no remedy.

NeutralGround
12-05-2011, 11:55
Oh and sorry for using shots that have the load menu screen in the background. I couldn't be bothered to set up another scenario. And please ignore the file HUNTERLOSC. It's irrelevant.


It'd cause issues because people would walk troops into those spaces and then turn it or something.

Yes, but surely if you did move an operative into the area the area that it would ordinarily fill and then the player attempted to turn the Hunter, it would just show a RED movement path, telling the player it is impossible for the Hunter to turn it in that direction.

NeutralGround
12-05-2011, 12:37
Heavens knows how I managed that. Thanks mate.

Sathra
12-05-2011, 13:10
It now comes to mind that I shouldn't have removed my own post. Oh well.

Chris
12-05-2011, 13:44
Yes, but surely if you did move an operative into the area the area that it would ordinarily fill and then the player attempted to turn the Hunter, it would just show a RED movement path, telling the player it is impossible for the Hunter to turn it in that direction.

Wouldn't be very intuitive, unfortunately.

I think in the case of the two screenshots you just posted up, the LOS block in place should only be 50% even if the Hunter fills its tile completely. The soldier can still see half of the alien.

I do wonder if it'd be possible to set the stopping chance for each of the hunter tiles seperately, so maybe the edge tiles would only have a 50-60% stopping chance while the middle tiles would have 100%. That would further ease the issue too - although you'd end up hitting your own tank more often with that system.

Sathra
12-05-2011, 13:48
Yeah, that would be my vote if possible. It'd remove the current problem (that the chance-to-hit is 0%) but still make hiding behind the Hunter worthwhile.