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DirkHardpeck
11-08-2011, 22:12
Haven't checked in in a long time, and I had a question.

I know it was addressed a while back, about them not going to make Female soldiers due to having to re-model everything, but I'd like to know if the stance has changed.

Chris
11-08-2011, 22:21
Nope, it's not changed. We'd still like to do it but the amount of effort required would be ridiculous. And if we can't get the battlefield models for women, I don't want to add names and portraits for women because it would look like we'd done a half-assed job...

Betuor
11-09-2011, 01:24
Makes sence.

imperialus
11-09-2011, 04:09
Also Xenonauts is set in the late 70's... Outside of a few guerrilla armies women simply did not serve in combat roles in any nations armed forces nevermind an elite, high risk, special forces team.

Come to think of it I've got to wonder if even today any women are serving in units like the SAS, Seals, Green Berets, JF2, Foreign Legion, KSK, Spetznaz or any other special forces units.

Moonshine Fox
11-11-2011, 17:11
In Sweden, you have the "Nationella Insatsstyrkan" (National Task Force) which is essentially similar to the ones you mentioned, albeit Police, not military. They accept women, but there are unfortunately few women that reach the physical demands of the force. But there are women serving there. Just a little off topic notion :P

anotherdevil
11-11-2011, 18:26
yeah but were there women serving there in the 1970s is the problem...

Moonshine Fox
11-11-2011, 18:30
yeah but were there women serving there in the 1970s is the problem...I'm not sure the NTF even existed back then. I somehow thought of present day. DERP.

Hoywolf
11-11-2011, 18:33
the only really difference I remember in x-com was the death scream, after you get the armored suits/flying suits everyone becomes genderless anyways :)

Moonshine Fox
11-11-2011, 19:03
the only really difference I remember in x-com was the death scream, after you get the armored suits/flying suits everyone becomes genderless anyways :)And got even uglier, somehow.

DrunkZombie
11-12-2011, 03:49
I think the Sayeret, Israeli Special Forces, has women.

Jean-Luc
11-12-2011, 04:04
Israel has a relatively small population and great need for a military so I expect they have quite a few women serving. I think I saw a documentary some years ago with a female tank driver (or something tank related) in the IDF.

Edit:

Yep.

Israel is the only nation to conscript women and assign some of them to infantry combatant service which places them directly in the line of enemy fire.

...

In 2000, the Equality amendment to the Military Service law stated that the right of women to serve in any role in the IDF is equal to the right of men. Women have taken part in Israel’s military before and since the founding of the state in 1948, Women started to enter combat support and light combat roles in a few areas, including the Artillery Corps, infantry units and armored divisions. A few platoons named Karakal were formed for men and women to serve together in light infantry. By 2000 Karakal became a full-fledged battalion. Many women would also join the Border Police.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Women


Women in the Israeli Defense Forces are female soldiers who serve in the Israel Defense Forces. Israel is the only country in the world with a mandatory military service requirement for women. Women have taken part in Israel’s military before and since the founding of the state in 1948, with women currently comprising 34% of all IDF soldiers, fulfilling various roles within the Ground, Navy and Air Forces. The 2000 Equality amendment to the Military Service law states that "The right of women to serve in any role in the IDF is equal to the right of men." Currently, 88% of all roles in the IDF are open to female candidates, while women can be found in 69% of all positions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Israel_Defense_Forces

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Flickr_-_Israel_Defense_Forces_-_Karakal_Winter_Training.jpg/800px-Flickr_-_Israel_Defense_Forces_-_Karakal_Winter_Training.jpg

All women in Xenonauts could've been IDF. :P

anotherdevil
11-13-2011, 02:10
Hmmmm this is interesting. While this is true, it's a bit much asking the devs to make a whole sprite sheet for the 1 or 2 women who might be in your team from the IDF =p

Plus (not that I agree with this) some people don't think women should be in combat, or that they would be some of the top soldiers in the world. That's bigotry at its worst, really

Jean-Luc
11-13-2011, 02:56
Wasn't really asking for IDF-ettes in the game, just some fun speculation. But Israeli women seem to be making a good point when it comes to female military service.

Elydo
11-13-2011, 06:44
The IDF also has to deal with the actual reason women aren't allowed in combat roles by most of the worlds militaries; men losing discipline when female units get into trouble. The different physical natures of the genders are a factor, but set limits for both genders would negate that concern. It's a genetic trait of male humans to try to protect women though, our species considers females more important than males on a biological level, and we haven't evolved past that yet. So female soldiers being wounded tends to make male soldiers go a bit berserk.

There are other concerns of course, but as far as I can tell they're mostly societal rather than tactical or physiological. Which means in a severe enough situation, we'd get past it, and the ones who couldn't would... cease to be a factor.

anotherdevil
11-13-2011, 06:53
Don't know if that's a biological factor there Elydo, I'd say it's more cultural too...

Elydo
11-13-2011, 07:30
There are distinct biological aspects to it though, that are difficult to overcome. Especially as we as individuals are reluctant to explore and acknowledge just how far and in what ways our biological, 'animal' natures influence us. Personally I think the attempt should be made though, in all aspects. I entirely support equality for all (opportunity, not outcome) but realising the problems and accepting the realities of them is the best way to figure out how to adapt around such issues. Facing up to something comes before dealing with it. The current trend of of trying to ignore issues and screaming at anyone who tries to point out that there even is a problem does not lead to any solution, which is itself a problem that, of course, doesn't get acknowledged and will get you screamed at...

Sathra
11-13-2011, 11:09
Yeah, its one of those things that are really blurry at times.

Now, unless there's something new Xenonauts-related to add, might as well let this thread die.
Feel free to discuss this stuff in the Off-topic section though.

Laxe
11-21-2011, 17:22
would still be nice to have scientist females

it shouldn't be hard to draw one image for them and add few female names

anotherdevil
11-21-2011, 20:45
Um scientists are just stats, they don't get names at all (apart from maybe the head scientist..)

Sathra
11-22-2011, 02:25
And the current scientist images (research screen and victory screen) are so androgynous they could all be female.

anotherdevil
11-22-2011, 04:54
and I bet those naughty scientist babes aren't wearing anything underneath those hasmat suits... ;-]

Sathra
11-22-2011, 06:36
You cheeky blighter.

We will never know...

anotherdevil
11-22-2011, 06:59
Well we might if Gazz' mods come to anything... Alternate research screen gets a +1 from me!

Elydo
11-22-2011, 09:06
First topic to be researched: minibar and dance poles for the transport.

><

anotherdevil
11-22-2011, 20:31
Not for the research lab? I can just see that static image becoming a gif. with scientists doing shots and swinging away =p

Sathra
11-23-2011, 02:24
Change the training room to a rec room?

Chris
11-23-2011, 10:42
First topic to be researched: minibar and dance poles for the transport.

Give I've made it clear there were no female soldiers in the game, this conjures up horrible mental images...

Sathra
11-23-2011, 11:29
I assume you mean the dance poles.

I say, if it reduces their stress, let them do what they want. They're going to be dead soon anyways. Besides, the poles double as safety handholds.

anotherdevil
11-23-2011, 22:18
Ha ha Sathra, are you secretly getting material for the LP?

Sathra
11-24-2011, 00:31
*shudders*
No.
Everyone is wearing power armour, and could you imagine Lucy or Dix pole-dancing?

sectoid
11-24-2011, 03:11
excuse me, will there any female civilian running around at the terror site ??

Lokik
11-24-2011, 03:46
Yes, there will be female civilians.

sectoid
11-24-2011, 05:43
Yes, there will be female civilians.

great the hear that, at least this will make the game-world not so "barren".

Jean-Luc
11-24-2011, 07:13
Is that some kind of fertility joke? :p

anotherdevil
11-24-2011, 09:05
Excuse me, will there be pole dancers in the terror site? Only requires a few new animations right? I mean it worked in Duke Nukem...


*shudders*
No.
Everyone is wearing power armour, and could you imagine Lucy or Dix pole-dancing?
What do you think they're wearing under that armour... Wait, hold on, Dix is a chick!?!

Sathra
11-24-2011, 12:00
Yeah, I messed up the re-naming. Marren is a guy as well. I assume they're wearing latex body-gloves.

sectoid
11-25-2011, 08:28
wait for xenonauts make it to gold or platinum, then Chris might consider silently updating our game files with pole-dancing easter egg.... :o

oracle1990
02-04-2012, 16:11
As I understand there will not be any females implemented in the game, but I guess there will be a mod for female soldiers ;)

I have started with an all female mod - here are what I made so far:

486487

As soon as I figure out how the animation files are build, I will start creating animation too.

--O--

Amiga4ever
02-04-2012, 16:37
Animation files will be difficult to change.....

Jean-Luc
02-04-2012, 18:04
If one suspends disbelief for a bit and doesn't stare at the soldier sprites too intensely they might be able to get passed as of as being "unisex". :p In that case a female mod that only changes portraits and paper dolls might be viable but I dunno.

oracle1990
02-04-2012, 21:23
It is not difficult to make the animation - here is an example:

From Idle to single-shot, rifle, direction SE, basic armor (looped 5 times)

http://youtu.be/uQ0YuIy-4AA.

The problem is how to replace the pictures in the animation files:

493

Could be like this
494

(It is not correct, need more work)

And a screenshot (almost forgot it):

495

--O--

Amiga4ever
02-04-2012, 22:08
I'm impressed :cool:

Gauddlike
02-04-2012, 22:39
Yeah it's really not a difficult process.
It is just incredibly time consuming and labour intensive!
Nice to see someone getting a start on the modding as well.

anotherdevil
02-05-2012, 00:09
do still look a wee bit out of place though

oracle1990
02-05-2012, 02:10
I have tried to adapt to a color scheme closer to the original uniforms:

498

--O--

oracle1990
02-05-2012, 03:02
do still look a wee bit out of place though

I installed the game 5 days ago - I have never hear about it before. I think it is good enough consider the time I have used on this game/mod. I also had to eat, sleep, work, be social, watch tv, play this game, play other games and so on...

--:)--

anotherdevil
02-05-2012, 03:30
I didn't mean it as criticism, more as motivation. There is a very distinct art style in the game, and I thought it better to point out the way your sprites do stand out, and I tried to put it as inoffensively as I could. but take it as you will

rynait
02-05-2012, 04:40
Hello,

females on battlescape... nah.. let modders do that ... however for the soldier screen via geoscape... should be easy to shoehorn in.

basis of females in combat before 1979...

In United States Civil war (definitely before 1980's) had females snuck in serving as soldiers. those did, reduced or disguised themselves as males somehow, those caught is simply delegated to camp support of the same unit she sneaked into.

I heard a story or two somewhere female somehow did combat during WW-II, not partistans. I have not heard of any female combatants in vietnam or later wars up to 1979, cuz of United States' stringent physical checks and boot camp.

So I imagine because of "multiple country" involvement, there might be few... no better to say.. female soldiers is uber-rare, probably one sneaked in under male disguise then discovered. and doubt countries is willing to waste time on diplomacy "telling xenonauts to remove that stubborn lady", just because she did get in and wants to kill those that shot her husband or her babies...

I would leave this novel approach on femmes soldiers to modders.

R

Gorlom
02-05-2012, 06:45
I'm impressed with how good it looks considering that you seem to use a 3D modeler, while Chris models are 2D (as far as I understands he uses 3D modles in the first step but then has the artist (or rendering program?) draw the sprites based on screencaps of the models?).

Is there a simple way to add a black outline to your models to make them look more 2 dimensional? (looking at the screencap that's what strikes me as the largest difference)

EDIT: Ryanit I don't think people that want female soldiers really need a reason as to why Xenonauts allow for female soldiers. at least not since it's going to be a mod rather then part of the released game.
Thinking up reasons are fun though and I don't see why we (well the modders at least) can't use a reason if someone comes up with a really good one. (So I' dont want you to stop.)

oracle1990
02-05-2012, 10:50
basis of females in combat before 1979...

In United States Civil war (definitely before 1980's) had females snuck in serving as soldiers. those did, reduced or disguised themselves as males somehow, those caught is simply delegated to camp support of the same unit she sneaked into.

--- and so on ---
R

I see that several is talking about female soldiers in 1979. Well, in 1979 there was not a global war against alien. There was no laser weapons (that I know of) or Buzzard 499, Colossus 500, Predator 501 or Sentiel 502 armour's. This game is not a historical document ;)

My reason to have female soldiers are simple; I am going to spend hours with this game and I have to "play with guys"? I prefer to rest my eyes on a female face (body) when I can - simple as that.

In my mod I will use another aproach on armour: In the game the armour is getting bigger. This is an approch that can go for a while, but as reasearch is developing, the armour should become more light weighted and smaller; in example developmen could go like this (from left to right):
503

--O--

Sunshard
02-05-2012, 10:56
Ack! Spoilers!

Nevertheless, I like where you're going on this one. Please do continue, as it's always nice to have options.

I believe the bulkiness of the armour may reflect that nanoscaling hasn't really caught on in 1979, and of course it provides:
- padding
- extra layers of armour (given what little insight the scientists have got, they can just about just stick one layer on top of another)
- assisted motion (punch through walls, evenly matched against tougher aliens, etc.)
- room for equipment.

Gauddlike
02-05-2012, 12:02
I think x-com was one of the few games that has had male and female troops on an equal footing.
There was no difference really between the two and the women weren't running round in armoured bikinis like a 12 year old boys dream :p

plucx
02-05-2012, 19:08
Indeed, I loved to have some of them. somtimes I would marry them with a team mate. It's the 70's folks. Time of change!

Couched
02-05-2012, 19:16
.....and the women weren't running round in armoured bikinis like a 12 year old boys dream :p

Hey!!! Who says you need to be 12 years old to to dream about that!? :rolleyes:

anotherdevil
02-05-2012, 20:42
where did you get the sprites from?

rynait
02-05-2012, 22:15
My reason to have female soldiers are simple; I am going to spend hours with this game and I have to "play with guys"? I prefer to rest my eyes on a female face (body) when I can - simple as that.


thus my saying, female soldiers is uber-rare. for people like you to drool over... and scientists-worker to fallover, thus able to make their armors to fit females.

R

rynait
02-05-2012, 22:17
Another thought..

what if Goldhawk wanted to attract females to play xenonauts game... They would design either amazon style warriors or chippendale style warriors...

Now that is one toughest challenge for goldhawk... is this sexism or is this game?

R

anotherdevil
02-05-2012, 22:44
Dear god no =p

MikeV37
02-06-2012, 02:08
couldn't we just get female portraits? I mean with all the armor covering them up, you won't really see a difference between the girls and guys. Our suspencion of disbelief is already there with the skin color, so why not the gender?

nutbarz
02-06-2012, 03:15
couldn't we just get female portraits? I mean with all the armor covering them up, you won't really see a difference between the girls and guys. Our suspencion of disbelief is already there with the skin color, so why not the gender?

I Agree!
This would probably be the easiest, I mean all the soldiers are white when deployed. So who is to say they are not women? Just Change some of their Screams when they Die. :D

Would there be any way to make the portraits change as well, like in Wolfenstein? The more Damage they take, the worse their portrait looks! But I suppose with say 50 different portraits, then 5 different looks One including Death (with comical X's for the eyes)
would be alot of work.

oracle1990
02-06-2012, 13:52
I have started with the easiest - female portraits.

Here are a few I made yesterday:

506

From Left; German Paratrooper, Belgium Paratrooper (1 esr para-codo), Belgium Paratrooper (2 Bn. Para-Codo), 75e Rangers (US), Spetznatz (Russia) and Air Assult paratroopers (Russia).

--O--

oracle1990
02-06-2012, 14:00
where did you get the sprites from?

I didn't get any choice other than install the game on my C-drive. So I guess you will find the sprites on the same location:

C:\Program Files\Desura\Common\xenonauts\soldierimages\ - there you will find: armour.basic, armour.buzzard, armour.colossus, armour.jackal, armour.predator, armour.sentinel, armour.wolf, faces and hands.

All you need to replace the graphics in the soldier menu at the base.

(Note: If you use 64-bit windows the directory-structure wil be C:\Program Files (x86)\Desura\Common\xenonauts\soldierimages\ )

--O--

oracle1990
02-06-2012, 14:04
At the moment there are 25 face-images ; 3 african, 3 asian, 11 nordic (european) and 8 med (latin?).

--O--

Gorlom
02-06-2012, 21:21
I have started with the easiest - female portraits.

Here are a few I made yesterday:

506

From Left; German Paratrooper, Belgium Paratrooper (1 esr para-codo), Belgium Paratrooper (2 Bn. Para-Codo), 75e Rangers (US), Spetznatz (Russia) and Air Assult paratroopers (Russia).

--O--
This might just be a personal prference.. but tone down the makeup on the middle 2 portraits. they look overdone. It kinda makes me wonder if they arent prostitutes or something. I'm not sure why someone would wear that heavy makeup as a grunt in a military organisation.

rynait
02-07-2012, 01:03
Hello,

the makeup gals. I say leave keep it... this makes me recall MASH tv program... i forgot her name; the nurse that likes to bleach her hair. That is how I thought upon seeing the make-up gal portraits.

R

xracer
02-07-2012, 06:18
I have started with the easiest - female portraits.

Here are a few I made yesterday:

506

From Left; German Paratrooper, Belgium Paratrooper (1 esr para-codo), Belgium Paratrooper (2 Bn. Para-Codo), 75e Rangers (US), Spetznatz (Russia) and Air Assult paratroopers (Russia).

--O--

That is really nice work, and i do agree also that the make up is a little on the strong side, but the faces overall are nicely done.

Awesome work

Gorlom
02-07-2012, 10:13
Hello,

the makeup gals. I say leave keep it... this makes me recall MASH tv program... i forgot her name; the nurse that likes to bleach her hair. That is how I thought upon seeing the make-up gal portraits.

R
I thought the only one wearing makeup in M.A.S.H was that guy trying to get out of the army by dressing up as a chick. What's his name? Klinger?

rynait
02-07-2012, 18:19
Hello,

yes the guy that is trying to get out of the army using whatever regulations (and clothes too). I think it was Corporal Klinger.

but the portrait work by Oracle does not make me think of this guy.... it was that nurse.

I thought that nurse wore makeup too. can't remember that actor name. oh well..

R

oracle1990
02-07-2012, 22:17
6 new figures:

510

New graphics for 3 of the first women

511

And some possible Aliens ... :rolleyes:

512

--:cool:--

oracle1990
02-07-2012, 22:29
Hello,

yes the guy that is trying to get out of the army using whatever regulations (and clothes too). I think it was Corporal Klinger.

but the portrait work by Oracle does not make me think of this guy.... it was that nurse.

I thought that nurse wore makeup too. can't remember that actor name. oh well..

R

You are thinking about Major Margaret "Hot Lips" Houlihan (Loretta Swit) -"Head nurse".
514

Just for the record:
Corporal Maxwell Q. Klinger (Jamie Farr)
513

--O--

Inkallim
02-08-2012, 05:49
Hmm I don't think it was just the makeup that was too much.

Don't get me wrong they look a heck of a lot better than I could dream of doing, but the lips look like they have been treated with a few gallons of botox and some of them look like they are doing that weird facebook/myspace "duck lips" thing.

All personal taste of course but I guess I prefer a more natural look.

oracle1990
02-08-2012, 09:33
If you prefer you can always replace the face's with photo of real people. Here are a few I collected today:

516517518519

--O--

Gorlom
02-08-2012, 12:56
You are thinking about Major Margaret "Hot Lips" Houlihan (Loretta Swit) -"Head nurse".
514

Just for the record:
Corporal Maxwell Q. Klinger (Jamie Farr)
513

--O--While she is obviously wearing makeup she's not wearing as heavy makeup as the portraits I reacted to. Oracle I think you should take it easy with the eyeshadow and the lipgloss. No real point in haveing them revelal their locations by reflecting light off their lips =P

Why isn't any of them wearing cammo makeup? :p

If you prefer you can always replace the face's with photo of real people. Here are a few I collected today:

516517518519

--O--
Can't make them fit the paper doll =)

oracle1990
02-08-2012, 13:43
Can't make them fit the paper doll =)

:eek:Ooops - Sorry wrong game

Would fit in "Ufo: Extraterrestrials" :o

--O--

oracle1990
02-08-2012, 14:08
It should have been live feed in the portrait (in the bottom view when you are in ground combat). Then the pictures could look like this:


http://youtu.be/kvjZsJJorhs

Note: This is just a preview - it is not rendered!

If so I could understand the notes about too mutch makeup. As long as the portrait is a still image, I assume the picture is from a ID picture; Correct me if I am wrong, but most people try their best to look as nice as possible on a ID picture.

But all input are welcome - no offence taken.

--O--

(I got quite a few comments when I first published my early idea/alpha version of "The Legion of Super Heroes") - guess why...)

524525526527528

Gorlom
02-08-2012, 14:40
If so I could understand the notes about too mutch makeup. As long as the portrait is a still image, I assume the picture is from a ID picture; Correct me if I am wrong, but most people try their best to look as nice as possible on a ID picture.

But all input are welcome - no offence taken.

--O--


As far as I understand it the picture is used both for the paperdoll in the soldier equip screen and the headshot image in the ground battle. I don't particularly mind the makeup but every so often one or two of the pictures you provide has REALLY heavy makeup.

And even if they would like to look their best, as soldiers they should probably be weary about wearing makeup on pictures incase that will make the higher ups not take them seriously. I don't think it gives a professional impression in a military organization.

I think that you have done amazing work so far. If I gave it a shot i wouldn't come up with something like that nomatter how long I took and you're creating them in no time at all (tbh I dont even kow where to begin). The only issues I have is the heavy makeup on a few of the pictures and that the lack of blackoutline makes them look significantly different from the figures already ingame. Neither are really large issues and if you did a mod to include your images I would most likely enjoy it all the same.

oracle1990
02-08-2012, 16:32
I think that you have done amazing work so far. If I gave it a shot i wouldn't come up with something like that nomatter how long I took and you're creating them in no time at all (tbh I dont even kow where to begin). The only issues I have is the heavy makeup on a few of the pictures and that the lack of blackoutline makes them look significantly different from the figures already ingame. Neither are really large issues and if you did a mod to include your images I would most likely enjoy it all the same.

I have been trying to make the pictures more like the original, but I have to work more with the filters.

Here are an example:
529


and a couple of screenshoot as it would look in the game:
531535

--O--

oracle1990
02-08-2012, 16:51
As far as I understand it the picture is used both for the paperdoll in the soldier equip screen and the headshot image in the ground battle.

I have to "arrest" you there. The same face is used, but not from the same directory. The Faces from the directory "Faces" are used as portrait, while the face in the directory as the armour is used as portrait for the paperdoll.

I think a picture say more than 1000 words.
Basic Armour
532
Buzzard Armour
533
Faces
534

--O--

Gorlom
02-08-2012, 18:18
True but then wouldn't creating 2 different looks for the same soldier cause confusion and be additional work for you?

And I still want to argue that women wouldn't wear (heavy) makeup for their "file photo" since this is likely to give a negative impression to any officer higher up in the chain of command. Especially the considering the timeperiod where women weren't seen as soldiers at all.

Chris
02-08-2012, 22:54
Nice work. I'm sure there's plenty of people who would happy to see this turn into a complete mod!

Haba
02-09-2012, 09:26
Presuming that this actually goes forward, how about releasing the original models (where relevant) so modders could actually do the rendering work themselves?

Personal preference:
- Slimmer model, facial color and little bit of hair visible
- Female voices
- Discreet portraits that match the original style

Would be nice to see the same variety applied to male combat models as well. So at least the skin/hair color would be visible to differentiate them from each other.

Of course most of the time you don't see any of the details in combat, so eh.

Gorlom
02-09-2012, 15:42
- Female voices
voices? Is there even any male soldier voices in game?


- Slimmer model, facial color and little bit of hair visible
Are we talking facial hair? armpits? unshaved legs? :p

Sorry about the joke but where exactly are you talking about ? the face portrait? the paper doll or the combatmission view?

anotherdevil
02-09-2012, 19:58
voices? Is there even any male soldier voices in game?
Death screams perhaps?

oracle1990
02-10-2012, 00:34
Would be nice to see the same variety applied to male combat models as well. So at least the skin/hair color would be visible to differentiate them from each other.


That is a option that is NOT going to be implemented...

Here is the files needed for Basic armour with shotgun and you can see the structure of the animations you need for Basic armour (only).

565

All these animation for each playable figure in the game? Aiaiai... Nah, I would chicken out...

--O--

oracle1990
02-10-2012, 00:43
The latest development of face portrait:

566

And Basic Armour Femal

568
--O--

anotherdevil
02-10-2012, 03:22
looking a lot better! The faces still seem animated rather than hand drawn, but I don't know what if anything you'd be able to do about that

Gorlom
02-10-2012, 08:42
Looking absolutly amazing imo.

oracle1990
02-13-2012, 22:51
Another day, another test, another software :)

638

639


--O--

Gorlom
02-13-2012, 23:07
Oh dear. uhm. Id play a bit more with the filters on old models and possibly see about adding black outlines in photoshop after takeing screen captures or something.

Unless that new test is a very rough draft thats a step.. no leap backwards.

Chris
02-14-2012, 01:08
Adding outlines in Photoshop is as easy as adding a Stroke to it. You can automate it for a bunch of files using the Actions control panels and Droplets - that's what we use to process our renders automatically. It's pretty easy and very powerful once you figure it out.

Haba
02-14-2012, 13:11
voices? Is there even any male soldier voices in game?

Presuming that there will be at least a death scream in the "final version". So basically one voice file ;-)


Are we talking facial hair? armpits? unshaved legs? :p

Obviously since I mentioned the magic word "model", I am talking about the combat sprites.

Heh, no. Just that tiny tuft of fair visible from underneath the helmet. But why not facial hair as well ;-)

Obviously not much is visible in the current unisex/race model.


That is a option that is NOT going to be implemented...

By your mod... or eh?

I meant that if the game engine under the hood still carried the information (and the ability to show a different sprite when available), modders in general could add new animations that'd give the additional details.

As I remember, the alternate sprites were dropped due to the time consuming process involved in making them. So if the original models for rendering them were available and the underlying mechanics support implementing them, I am sure we'd eventually have more diverse animations.

I wouldn't personally mind running renderer a few hours just to have the ability to distinguish between John and Liu on "battlescape".

Montie
02-15-2012, 20:59
I think the Sayeret, Israeli Special Forces, has women.

Always has, I think... But that's as much due to the required manpower as anything else. In this instance you may have female support staff, but front line combat? in the 70s you'd have been laughed right out of the officers' corps for the idea. In a Modern stance I don't consider a good idea realistically... Not because I don't think they're ready, but because most men aren't. It's been proen that a woman getting shot has far more damaging consequence to the male psyche than another guy getting shot. WAY off-topic there, but just saying.

oracle1990
02-16-2012, 21:22
"Women in the military have a history that extends over 4,000 years into the past, throughout a vast number of cultures and nations. Women have played many roles in the military, from ancient warrior women, to the women currently serving in conflicts.

Despite various roles in the armies of past societies, the role of women in the military, particularly in combat, is controversial and it is only recently that women have begun to be given a more prominent role in contemporary armed forces. As increasing numbers of countries begin to expand the role of women in their militaries, the debate continues.

From the beginning of the 1970s, most Western armies began to admit women to serve active duty. Only some of them permit women to fill active combat roles, including Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Italy, Germany, Norway, Israel, Serbia, Sweden and Switzerland. Other nations allow female soldiers to serve in certain Combat Arms positions, such as Greece, India, the United Kingdom and the United States, which allows women to serve in Artillery roles, while still excluding them from units with a dedicated Infantry role."

From Wikipedia.

--O--

oracle1990
02-16-2012, 21:28
By your mod... or eh?

I wouldn't personally mind running renderer a few hours just to have the ability to distinguish between John and Liu on "battlescape".

This would be a great option, but the work is to mutch. I guess you need approx 430 000 individual pictures for John, additional 430 000 pictures for Liu and so on...

With low rendering option I guess I could make 10-20 pictures per min... Not including errors and corrections...

--O--

anotherdevil
02-16-2012, 21:33
From the beginning of the 1970s, most Western armies began to admit women to serve active duty. Only some of them permit women to fill active combat roles, including Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Italy, Germany, Norway, Israel, Serbia, Sweden and Switzerland. Other nations allow female soldiers to serve in certain Combat Arms positions, such as Greece, India, the United Kingdom and the United States, which allows women to serve in Artillery roles, while still excluding them from units with a dedicated Infantry role."
That doesn't mean that all those nations had women in front line combat in the 70s or 80s though, only that they were allowed into uniform. And it doesn't actually say when those countries that did allow women into combat roles did so, unfortnately

oracle1990
02-16-2012, 21:52
If this game should be historical correct, there would not be an alien invation in 1979...

--O--

(If I could choose a time periode for this game I would choose 1993:cool:.)

Montie
02-16-2012, 22:05
The lack of complete historical accuracy is no reason to abandon it entirely. Even set in 93 women were still struggling to be allowed to fly combat missions in the US Air Force. I'm an example of one of those guys that has no problem with men dying around him, but I have significant issues with women even getting hurt around me. I recognize I'm old fashioned in that regard, but there are a lot of men especially in the military with that particular issue.

I'll also freely admit that one of the best places to push against that particular mindset would be in video games... course, I've long held that if women want equal treatment they should get an equal cut of the crap work ;)

oracle1990
02-16-2012, 22:34
Even set in 93 women ...

I would choose 1993 for another reason ;) Not for the women option.

--O--

Safe-Keeper
02-18-2012, 16:56
I'll also freely admit that one of the best places to push against that particular mindset would be in video games...Problem is that a lot of video games include women either for the heroes to have someone to protect or rescue, or as sex objects with grotesquely large breasts. I'm all for more "gender equality" (both ways) in games, but it has to be done in a respectful way. Mirror's Edge (Faith) and Portal (Chell) are two examples that come to mind of cases where developers included female characters and didn't make a fuzz about it.

Agree it's not something for Xenonauts, though, due to the time period. Though some modder will probably add them in eventually ;) .

oracle1990
02-19-2012, 09:29
There is a lot of arguments why there should not be any female women in the game, but I have not seen anyone mention the airplane used.

Here are some fact:

F-17: There are 2 different airplane named F-17; american build YF-17 and chineese build JF-17.

There was only 2 american YF-17 build and they have a double tail wing.
655

The Chineese JF-17 look more like the one used in the game, but was not produced until 2006.
656

MIG-32: Never buildt. The MIG-31 Firefox had it first flight in 1975, and was starting to be used in 1982.
657


Why bother if there wasn't any female soldiers in active duty in 1979?

--O--

anotherdevil
02-19-2012, 18:40
both planes are fictional aircraft, they aren't real. Xenonauts is supposed to have been around since the 1950s, and as such the F-17 and the Mig-32 are the best that they have been able to come up with (adapting the best from both nations with whatever tech they have developed from the icelandic incident)

Gauddlike
02-21-2012, 07:48
The only argument against women in the game is the time and effort involved to add them.
If someone is willing to take that work on then great.
It is a sacrifice the devs of an indie team had to make that a AAA studio probably wouldn't have had to.
The other side of the coin is that a AAA studio would probably rush out a substandard, watered down, less interesting version of the game.

Hopefully if someone does manage to add the female troops the style will mesh well with the current visuals.
If it doesn't then it will be one to avoid for me as I would find it better to not have them than to have them not look right.

NullOrdo
02-24-2012, 19:15
Is it possible to just add some female face pictures and maybe add an option to let players use them? Yeah, the sprites and paper doll would be dudes but it would still be neat during missions. Seems like an easy way to give the people the option to at least pretend there is female soldiers, while not breaking the realism for other players or adding a ton of work for the devs.

Gorlom
02-24-2012, 19:18
NullOrdo what you suggest is very easy to modd in yourself if you have the pictures.

Wait are you asking to get picures drawn by Goldhawkinteractive's artist or just to be able to use any picture?

NullOrdo
02-24-2012, 20:26
NullOrdo what you suggest is very easy to modd in yourself if you have the pictures.

Wait are you asking to get picures drawn by Goldhawkinteractive's artist or just to be able to use any picture?

Well true, I guess this game is going to be heavily user moddable. It wouldn't be too bad to import any kind of picture I guess but the consistency in artwork would be nice. Plus, I think the art style in this game is very cool.

Mauloch
02-25-2012, 20:48
Why don't you just go get a girl friend instead, or put a barbie dolly next to your monitor? <G>

Gorlom
02-25-2012, 21:13
Why don't you just go get a girl friend instead, or put a barbie dolly next to your monitor? <G>
Sincerely wondering why you don't keep comments of such a nature to yourself Mauloch?

Mauloch
02-26-2012, 00:45
Ok Gorlom, wonder no more... :o
I will add though, the fact there are no female soldiers is, in my not so humble opinion, just another of the wonderful little jems I've learned about Xenonauts so far.

Gorlom
02-26-2012, 02:19
Ok Gorlom, wonder no more... :o
I will add though, the fact there are no female soldiers is, in my not so humble opinion, just another of the wonderful little jems I've learned about Xenonauts so far.
So that he wants to be able to modify his (and only his) personal play experience to include female soldiers angers you so much you need to verbally attack his person? o.0

Mauloch
02-26-2012, 07:27
Was my post lacking tac, yes, very. Was I singling out any one person only, no. Will I post something stupid like that again in my life time, most likely as I drink & post only. Sometimes, opinions are like elbows and are better left unsaid, agree'd...

I look forward to the finished game, it looks like a real winner, cheers!

oracle1990
03-12-2012, 09:55
Just a link I found http://www.desura.com/groups/female-soldier-lovers-group

MrJenssen
03-13-2012, 09:04
I honestly can't say I care much for the "it was the 70s"-argument. I find it silly. I'd love to have female characters in the game nontheless. It's not about the realism "because it's historical". I'm sorry but aliens weren't invading earth in the 70s either. We can allow ourselves some creative liberties. Females add variety, and the bottom line is: They were in the original game too.

... With that said, I completely understand what Chris is saying. It would just be way too much effort at this point. Maybe it can be done at a later time, or modders could try their luck with it. As for now, it's completely acceptable, and we all understand why it's not being done anytime soon.

But yes, female characters would be a benefit somewhere down the road, eventually. I'm sure you agree with that too, Chris. :)

Gauddlike
03-13-2012, 09:25
Well to be fair the arguments for not having female soldiers are all game world justifications for why they are not there, rather than reasons to leave them out.
I don't think anyone here would complain if female soldiers were in and certainly not ask for them to be removed.
We know they are not going to be there so people have come up with in game reasons to explain it away.
You can use any game world justification you want instead of the 70's suggestion.
No one is seriously saying that is why female soldiers should be left out.
They are simply saying 'well as they aren't here we could say its because of <insert reason here>'

oracle1990
03-23-2012, 09:43
Hi.

I had a break in the female mod (and fan art). Here is a litle animation for a female soldier using the M16 I made yesterday.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27q8l6OUaZw&feature=youtu.be

--O--

oracle1990
04-30-2012, 10:57
Female faces - using toon filter:

914915916917918

Pinetree
04-30-2012, 11:50
If you ever need help with names etc, give me a shout. I have huge lists of surnames, first names won't be too much of a drama :) . I can also show you how to get female names matching to female portraits.

oracle1990
04-30-2012, 17:07
If you ever need help with names etc, give me a shout. I have huge lists of surnames, first names won't be too much of a drama :) . I can also show you how to get female names matching to female portraits.

When I have the female mod finished I sure could need some help with the name - thanx.

sectoid
04-30-2012, 17:49
They are simply saying 'well as they aren't here we could say its because of <insert reason here>'

reason: YMCA are all boys.

919

thothkins
04-30-2012, 18:46
I'm sorry but aliens weren't invading earth in the 70s either.

Because they arrived in the 1940s and had already signed their accords by the early 1950s of course :-)

I'd love to see female troops in the game. It's only a matter of time before a mod is going to change the setting and backstory, so such a resource would be of huge benefit.

You could always put a Purist Cold Warrior on the options menu. There are no women. There are no aliens. But there are russians with little alien masks on to fight.

Lotean
04-30-2012, 21:12
Hey wait a minute. weren't there women serving in soviet intelligence agencies? KGB, SMERSH, Ect well before SMERSH was disbanded. well wouldn't those women have to go somewhere to apply their skills?

Commissar Pancakes
04-30-2012, 23:37
If anything, that means the intelligence portion of Xenonauts, not the combat arm.

And I don't think that a female spy has a good chance of blending in with aliens in any of their bases. :p

Lotean
05-01-2012, 03:16
well couldn't she migrate into a combat role if she wanted? And there's a lot more to espionage than simply 'blending in'

thothkins
05-01-2012, 19:44
going with an MJ-12 analogy to X-Com/ xenonauts, I imagine some of the soldiers having some intelligence/ scientific backgrounds. This would aid analysis, retrieval, disinformation and suppression of locals in addition to the military skills they bring. That being the case, then why couldn't there be women as part fo the group?

A slight stray form pure cold war territory, but then so was the Iceland incident.

Gorlom
05-01-2012, 19:55
why couldn't there be women as part fo the group?
We have been over this: It requires alot of work makeing, rendering and drawing the sprites!

=P

thothkins
05-01-2012, 20:12
We have been over this: It requires alot of work makeing, rendering and drawing the sprites!

meaning issue in incorporating them into the game background of the 1970s, not meaning to have them coded into the original game, as this, as you say , has been well covered.

Gauddlike
05-01-2012, 22:04
No women would be available in the starting line up due to limitations on the number of women in actual combat roles.
After that there is no reason why women wouldn't be able to join up as history and game history diverge.
The down side would be that women wouldn't have the combat background of the male troopers and would probably not be chosen for an elite organisation until they have proven themselves.
The easiest way round this would be to assign female troops specific alien combat history.

Gorlom
05-01-2012, 22:12
meaning issue in incorporating them into the game background of the 1970s, not meaning to have them coded into the original game, as this, as you say , has been well covered.

I had a smiley there! I know you saw the smiley! I got what you meant! I put the smily in there because of that!

The =P smiley meant "Don't take my post seriously!"

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:p

PS. post needs more exlamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PPS. and possibly another smiley to make my point clearer... =P

thothkins
05-01-2012, 22:20
that was never a smiley! that was a random keystroke as you fell asleep on the keyboard! what is =P ?


Oh OK I saw it and utterly failed to recognise it :-( See! sad face! that's a smiley!

IceVamp
05-01-2012, 22:43
Uh.. isn't that a frowny?

Gauddlike
05-01-2012, 22:44
Maybe a grumpy?

thothkins
05-01-2012, 22:57
in my limited emoticon language, there are two types of 'smiley'

happy :-) and sad :-(

that's pretty much all I'll recognise without actually having the little piccy :D

Gorlom
05-01-2012, 23:04
^^ T_T B-D 8) 0.0 :S :/ >< :X

I would post the Horratio smiley I found a few weeks back but I'm too lazy to find it for copypasta-ing... and I have no idea how to make it myself.

Commissar Pancakes
05-02-2012, 00:06
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